Ropetown

Hey Ropetown guys, My guild Power of the Horde (same server as you) is getting to the point where we are big enough for Zul'Gurub raids and ALMOST big enough to do Molten Core by ourselves. The question I have is If you want an item and have the dkp for it and get it, are your points deducted or something? Say you want an item that costs 5 dkp and you have 6, do you get the item and your points subtracted or are they kept?

I'd also like to know how satasfied you are with your DKP system and weather it would be useful for a starting guild or if you have any suggestions for a good DKP system that works for a guid starting in Zul'Gurub/MC.

Last thing, do you guys plan to do Zul'Gurub and if you do will you have a point system for it?

Thanks and sorry if what I said was confusing

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1337 loc of Turmiol

Our system works in a points in / points out basis. What goes in, must come out; think taking a shit after you eat. If an item is worth 19 points on a 20 man raid and someone takes the item, all people present would receive 1 point.

Items are assigned a set value, the person who receives that item is subtracted the value of the item while the people present for the raid split up the points. They are awarded to the person with the highest DKP who asks for it, no rolling or anything like that.

There are drawbacks to our system as well as the others out there, but it's what best fits your guild. Hope that answers your question and best of luck dying to the Molten Giants!

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Their DKP is a ranking system. When an item drops, it is worth x amount of points. If you're 40man raiding MC, say, and an item worth 60 points drops, someone buys it out. When they do so, everyone is allocated 60/40 points, 40 because that's how many raiders there were. That's basically 1.5 points. Now, say this is your first MC raid ever and everyone has 0. Can no one bid on items? No! It's a ranking system. You can go into negatives. Hell, you could have all but one raider in the negatives, because the points are used to determine who has not spent points for an item recently, who has been on more raids recently, etc.

Also, one major thing about this system that seems like a major point, but can be changed if you really want: All points must be in equilibrium. For everyone point given to your raid group, that many points must have left the system through buying an item or whatever. If you don't, and just hand out bonus DKP in a wanton fashion, you'll get inflation, and things will get messy and unfair.

That's partly how I view it...

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Back to our roots, in the days of Anarchy...

what if only one person in the raid needs an item, does he still lose DKP for it? or would he have to sacrifice the item if he wanted to save DKP

That is the one point that has always frustrated me, brother. It is up to the guild as to how they tackle that issue, dude. Dunno how RT does it, but most guilds will readily take your points, brother. Befallen sure did.

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What'chu gonna do when
<Hulkamania>
runs wild on YOU?!

If you take the loot, you pay the dkp, regardless of demand. If you are one of 20 rogues that want a dagger, or the only warlock left that doesn't already have felheart shoulders...you still pay the dkp price.

And yeah, if you want to save your dkp for some uber item to drop, then you can choose to pass on items.

If you get an item, you pay the dkp. If you don't want to pay the dkp, you don't get the item. The system at it's core is very simple, which eliminates 90% of the bitching and crying that loot has the huge potential to cause.

Yep.. just to restate Teek's point.. we've had no bitching/crying/moaning over our DKP system at all, no loot drama. There was some discussion about some point values, and we changed a bunch of stuff around when blizzard redid the tier 1 epic items.. also some ideas/discussion about parts of the system, but no real complaining or grumbling. That's probably the strongest argument in favour of this type of point system. It's simple and easy to understand.

Keeping the rules simple -- including things like everyone paying for an item, even if they're the only person who wants/needs -- makes it very hard for anyone to try to game the system, which makes it hard for anyone to stir up drama around it. Imagine if out of 5 warlocks, 4 paid for their item, and the last one got it for free because he was the only one on a raid/only one without/etc. If I was one of the 4, I'd have a right to be pissed and to complain. It's just not worth it.

Hmm...I didnt think of that. Being a hunter, if Giantstalker shoulders dropped and i paid the DKP then the next MC run another hunter got it for free because he was the only hunter without, Id be pretty pissed.

Wouldn't it be easier if only ONE person needed an item and no one else had any interest, such as the Warlock example, to do the following..

1) Give the Warlock the loot.
2) Exclude that item from the point count, so no one gets or loses any points from the extra item.

This solution would not force players to lose DKP on items NO ONE else wants, AND not screw up the equality of In versus Out, point distribution...

Seems like a win win to me.

that leaves things open for manipulation and debate like where do you make exceptions etc.

If someone wants an item, they pay for it. If noone wants an item, it gets disenchanted. Simple as that. Anything else becomes subjective and as flip says open for manipulation. If someone will get use out of an item, then it's worth something to them, hence they should pay points. If an item isn't desired by -anyone-, then the point value is probably wrong. Someone might take it at 10 points as situational gear (e.g. high spirit gear for long fights etc), but wouldn't take it for 35 points.

The *only* exception is if everyone already has/noone wants a bind-on-pickup item, someone who already has the item is allowed to loot it again for 0 points if they want... for backup gear, putting a different enchant on, etc.

Back on another server we did a system for instances like Strat and Scholo where you got to get one blue item per run. They didn't like stuff going to "waste", so if nobody really wanted to use their "item" on it, people could roll on it for free. It sounded nice at first.

Really, it was retarded. Nobody would use their roll on anything until the last boss, because their biggest prize would have been the leggings or helm or bp that dropped at the end. As a result, alomst everything was rolled on for no points, and stuff was going to people who would make little to no use out of it. At some people people were "needing it but not wanting to roll on it" to the point that they would just sell it. It pretty much resulted in more waste than the alternative, DEing it.

This system is a million times better than that crap. The only issue is that Points In/Points Out offers the greatest benefit to people who attend farm status raids, regardless of whether or not they attend learning raids. It's not necessarily perfect in a reward-for-work-done way.

The people just never ever bid on anything until they are the last person who doesn't want it, and in the end you never have anyone bidding on anything.

Yeah as others have said, points in = points out. We have static values for an item. When you buy an item, you loose the points it costs and everyone gets the points.

Say sword of omg damage drops and its 50 points. well rogue 1 has 40 points, rogue 2 has 30 and warrior 1 has 45 points. If the warrior bids, then he wins, looses 50 points and everyone gets 50/X where X was the number of ppl present when the item dropped.

Another example using negative numbers. Warrior armor of tanking drops, and warrior 1 is -20, warrior 2 -130, and warrior 3 is at -5.5 . If warrior 3 bids, he wins, even though everyone is negative, he is closest to 0.

Also, you can bid with 0 points and win if everyone else that bids has less then you , IE negative.

As another person stated. If an item drops that someone allready has, and no one present wants the item, instead of DEing it, the person that BOUGH IT BEFORE, can loot it again for a 2nd pair for free. This is for backup/alternate libram/enchanting purposes. Its up to the person though if they want a 2nd identical pair or rather just have it DE'd. This isn't going to happen till you start running the raid instances for months on end.

Hopefully this all makes sense.

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<malice> why would i want to tab target to an untanked mob?

KotS tried something like that...us being nice and all and all it lead to was lies and complete manipulation of the system for 'free' loot

aka, a certain druid would pass on all cenarion waiting for the other druids to have it next run and wouldnt call need next run...he would get the loot pretending he didnt want it for free

that system could work and would be ideal if all 40 people raiding are trustable enough to share account info with, but otherwise it'll just be taken advantage of until the guild stops it then the person that used the system for their advantage would /gquit with their free loot and take a ride on other guild's backs say like LW and Pro


=p